> ATTN: AGW alarmists? Do you think chemtrails are a problem?

ATTN: AGW alarmists? Do you think chemtrails are a problem?

Posted at: 2015-03-12 
First of all, not all condensation trails are "chemtrails". Nevertheless, cloud seeding is a viable business. Planes spray salts (calcium chloride), barium, silver iodide, or dry ice, with dust particles in some cases, to precipitate clouds for rain or to disperse fog at airports. There were attempts to seed clouds over the southwest to assuage the wildfires and to ease the heat waves and drought in the southern states. China used it in Beijing at the 2008 Olympics to clear their skies.

What theory is involved with seeding clouds? Not conspiracy. However, it isn't usually widely publicized because it gets negative reactions. It doesn't always work, and there are side-effects, such as barium contamination to the soil, pollution to coastal waters, asthma reactions, and it is likely taxpayers' money that is being spent on these attempts at weather modification.

Edit: Oh! You're wondering why alarmists don't pay attention to chem trails? It's because it hasn't been on the evening news and they haven't been told what they should think.

Hi Lin, good to see you. As you and I both know, "chemtrails" are complete nonsense, the delusions of paranoid minds. Since there is another open question on them, I will copy my answer from there to here, since I think it applies equally as well.

There are no "chemtrails." They are an unfounded conspiracy theory.

What you see are contrails. They are apparent when water vapor from the exhaust from jets condenses into water droplets or ice crystals behind the plane. They are actually what is called a "mixing cloud," neither the jet exhaust nor the ambient air has 100% humidity, but when mixed they do (actually > 100%) and you see condensation as a result. They come about because if you look at a plot of the Clausius-Clapeyron relation that governs the saturation vapor pressure of water you'll see that it is nonlinear.

The reason that you see them stop and start like in the video is because the plane is passing between air masses with different humidity. If the air is very dry contrails will not form, because even the mixed air will have humidity below 100%. These air mass boundaries can occur when the plane is climbing or descending (quite common) or even when it is in level flight.

They actually DO affect climate. Contrails can expand and cover large portions of the sky because under the right conditions the cloud droplets that form can act as nuclei for more condensation. Contrails don't block much incoming visible light from the sun, but they do radiate IR light downward and prevent nighttime cooling. Nights are warmer with contrails than without them, so the daily temperature range is less. This was demonstrated after 9/11, when the government shut down air traffic for several days, so there were no contrails. Scientists compared the average temperature range before and after, and found that on nights without contrails there was more cooling and greater temperature range.

EDIT: Just to be clear, since some people seem confused about this, this is NOT weather modification, it is NOT cloud seeding. Attempts at weather modification through cloud seeding are fairly uncommon these days because (1) there is no convincing evidence that it does much, (2) conditions have to be favorable for it (clear skies are NOT favorable), and (3) if you actually do affect the weather, you become open to lawsuits.

I think AGW is a problem and I don't think chem trails are.

It seems to me we are living in a culture of conspiracy theories. Blame the rise of the internet, I suppose. But it's frustrating how so many of the ridiculous ones (such as the 'fake' moon landing) get taken seriously anyway. It dilutes and distracts from the real problems, like AGW.

So, you are hustling belief that there is more harm in believing that there is something wrong in the sky then belief that something is wrong with majority of fellows humans. What you call delusion was called vision before.

See China Olympics. Btw. how come white vine vinegar and orgonite clean this H2O fog?

I find Jim z comments when it comes to geology quite informing, the rest of them to frequently turn into a rant. That particular comment seems to be more about what he mostly seems to remember then what was mostly said and to me indicates he isn't reading the comments. Something I have to say I am equally guilty of at times.

If I wanted to start a conspiracy theory, I would take a lesson from an expert like sagebrush. For instance I would post something along the lines of "How the US sent $12bn in cash to Iraq. And watched it vanish" Use something that is seems to be true at first sight and then question if some prominent politician used it to buy land in Paraguay. And then I would question why the tea baggers (note the insulting language) are not looking for this wasted (of course I have no prove it is wasted) money. And then I would sit back and gloat as the other side tries to defend the accusations...

If you directly inhale them, yes. But the true "alarmists," who waste their lives denying science and the scientific reality of the seriousness of man-made climate change, are more likely to have their heads up some place where breathing anything, chemtrails or fresh air, is difficult anyway. Or, I guess I should have said "contrails" rather than "chemtrails." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail

I think nutbar conspiracy theorists are a problem. It's like we have a significant portion of the population that have the intellectual sophistication of Teddy Duchamp, and are constantly worried about throwing goochers. It makes it impossible to get anything done because you can't reason with a bunch paranoid morons who substitute superstition and fantasy for reason and analysis.

u cant write off chemtrails...its just antother opinion in the global warming debate which is just as valid as yours~

its commen sense that all those plane trails arent doing any good up there, what are they hiding???

From my experience deniers are more likely to believe in Chemtrails. Many deniers in this forum do as well. We all know JimZ is a liar anyways. He has lied about many things here in the past. He is not here to tell truths. He is here to manipulate those that are not knowledgeable in the area.

however, as Rolando states, much of his knowledge on geology is informing. I do respect him for that. I do not respect him for always bringing up conspiracy theories or bringing in politics whenever he does not know or is not aware of something.

If they raise gas prices than yes.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylc=X3oDMTB1a2x0anY5BF9TAzIxMTU1MDA0NDMEc2VjA3BlZXBfZQRzbGsDcQ--?qid=20130218142810AAFXLhS

JimZ seems to think y'all do:

"Alarmists often believe in wacko theories involving Haliburtin, Cheney, and Exxon Mobile?

We went to war for oil.

Chem trails,

Conspiracies of oil companies to drive up prices.

yada yada yada"

I expect a loud outpouring of just how dangerous chemtrails are.

The logic follows, these peoples (conspiracy nuts) belief systems are already compromised, embrace them.

"Do you think chemtrails are a problem?"

Of course not , silly - I wear a Q ray bracelet http://www.skepdic.com/qray.html

Chemtrails! Yikes!

What are chemtrails?

NO who would bother doing it and why