In order to find out why Hitler (who is actually closer to the "quote") hated the Jews you have to go back into history [1,2,3]. What is often overlooked is that Hitler used the sentiment of hate towards all minorities (Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, foreigners, communist, etc) [4] in order to unite people who were under extreme hardship due to the depression. Sadly history has a tendency to repeat itself, the only difference in then U.S. today is that the Jews are replaced by Muslims.
Ironically, agenda 21 warns against having a common enemy, even though Sagebrush and other conspiracy theorist claims the opposite. And for those who do pay attention they have noticed that Sagebrush is trying to set up a common enemy, in this forum, scientist, politicians and wealthy people, accusing them of lying and getting rich.
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@ Sagebrush "Prove that he didn't say it!" You can not prove that someone did not say something, you are the one who claimed Goebbels said it, therefore it is up you to prove that he did. Hitler was baptized a Catholic but was probably an atheist. [5] And what is up with your hatred towards Catholics, are you a KKK [6] member or sympathizer?
@ Raisin Caine, the quote is false (as are many of Sagebrush's quotes) although you are correct that lying and propaganda are employed by all sides during WW2. Jews were not liked much by the US, Canada and Cuba either at the time. [7] Something we do not learn in history class.
Interesting enough, when Goebbels made a quote similar to this quote, he was referencing the English lying.
But none of this makes any difference to me. The fact is that the quote is true and was used.
The Nazis continually repeated the mantra of jewish inferiority. Many in Germany began to believe it. So whether or not you accept the quote as authentic, do you really want to dispute that the Nazis used this method?
In fact, I have to wonder why you are even disputing this. You seem to consistently claim that the deniers are being funded by oil to perpetuate the lie of global warming denial. That is what you are saying, is it not???
So do you really want to claim the repetitive lying does not lead to belief???
FSM,
I am well aware of what the popular opinion of the jews and other minorities have been in the US and most locations. Of course, not many talked about extermination.
Nonetheless, you are arguing about whether the quote is correctly attributed, when you seem to beleive that the quote is indeed correct and how the Nazi party operated.
So if I use the quote and attribute it to Raisin Shifu, my raisin kung fu master, who I once heard say this quote,... , there would be no argument???
Jim Z,
Yeah, I notice some anti-theists constantly engage in this behavior. What they are unaware of is history. This same technique was previously used by the protestants to bash the catholics. It had no root in reality. Fact is that while Hitler misused religious texts to justify his actions, he also created a version of the Lord's prayer, where he bascially replaced the lord for himself. Not exactly the actions of a devout Christian. Further, his anti-religious views have also been documented. Not to mention his attack of the Catholic Church.
I think he says it to suggest that if you tell a lie enough times, people will start to believe it regardless who said it first.
Actually to suggest Hitler is a Catholic is missing some very important information about Hitler and it seems to be more about slamming Catholics than understanding Hitler IMO. According to many sources, including Goebbels (Google it if you want, Goebbel's Diary), Hitler was anti-religious. Hitler used the church for politics but in his private life was not religious. He loved and read many atheists popular in the day including Marx.
Nobody really knows for sure but I think Hitler was almost certainly an atheist but then again I am convinced that Obama is as well but some politicians like to pretend to be religious because it helps them politically.
Gary quotes one of Hitler's speeches that was obviously political and meant to also demean Christians by their association with Hitler. I wouldn't fret it Gary. Hitler was a statist and a Marxist but he believed nationalism would motivate far better than class but he used both. As someone stated recently, Hitler attacked the rich, particularly Jews, and the modern left simply attacks the rich and are more careful about attacking Jews.
From the Nazi Platform of 1932
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/h...
We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.
Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and regaining German freedom. Socialism, therefore, is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total fighting brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism.
I think Sagebrush's first line in his reply here sums up the irony pretty well.
Compare his
"That quote is too widely publicized to even attempt to dispute this".
with
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it"
In Sagebrush's world, Google hits beat historians' research. The falsely attributed quote has been repeated so many times in so many places, people have eventually come to believe it.
It's just another example of the virulent nastiness that subverts dialogue and discourse modeled after our politician's behavior here in the U.S. (and elsewhere) which has paralyzed our countries economically and socially instead of addressing the underlying issues. It's simply putting emotion ahead of reason.
Your own link doesn't show the quote to be false. Indeed it shows both Goebbels and Hitler accusing others of doing the same. Projecting their own thoughts on the matter.
Either way, this is not a question about global warming, unless you are referring to lies about green jobs, lower energy bills, solar and wind can meet our needs, cap and trade or carbon tax will reduce carbon emissions, etc. Perhaps you should ask this in a section about ObamaCare.
Sagebrush - "That quote is too widely publicized to even attempt to dispute this."
Isn't that the same thing as this, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."?
Added***
Ah! I see that Gringo had already noted the failed logic that Sagebrush is widely known to use.
It's a very well known quote and a widely used method of statecraft, so to call it a lie is, in fact a lie in itself.
It is a good quote. Why does it matter who said it?
It has been said that the works we attribute to Shakespeare were not, in fact, written by him. Does that affect the quality of the work in any way?
I have a feeling most people on both sides realize Sagebrush lies. He has been called out on quite a few actually. And his excuse is pretty much what he posts here "Even if it isn't true I think he would have said it"
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
http://bytwerk.com/gpa/falsenaziquotations.htm
Can it be that denialists can only lie?
>>Can it be that denialists can only lie?<<
In the sense that without lies they would have nothing to say about climate change, that is certainly true. Most Deniers do not know enough about science or climate to invent lies or to recognize lies. They are more like psychics mindlessly channeling the Bullshlt of political spirits who live in the Ether-net.
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Sage ----
"Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years."
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872
When I see questions like this, here's a quote that comes to mind:
Great minds talk about ideas,
Average minds talk about events,
Small minds talk about people.
That quote is too widely publicized to even attempt to dispute this. Even your article refers to that fact.
The fact of it is that, it does prove to be true in real life. As the article you refer to even attests to, Hitler was of that same mind. Why would an employee go against his boss? Especially since that boss could take him out at any time, like he did Rommel. In fact Hitler even said, "If you repeat a lie often enough and long enough the masses of the people would believe it." (This is translated into English, of course.)
Even Stalin stated similar statements. What I am stating, and accurately so, tyrannical rulers exist by lying. That is the main tool in their arsenals.
Quote by Paul Watson, a founder of Greenpeace: "It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true."
Quote by Jim Sibbison, environmental journalist, former public relations official for the Environmental Protection Agency: "We routinely wrote scare stories...Our press reports were more or less true...We were out to whip the public into a frenzy about the environment."
Are you denying this fact of life?
Gary F: I don't exactly see your point on this one. However, I will say, you are preaching to the choir on this subject.
Hitler was a Catholic. This is well documented by both fact and fictional articles. He had a direct go between, in the name of Franz von Papen, who interfaced directly between the Pope and Hitler. The Swastika is called the twisted cross and was documented by a documentary by that name. It was the cross that was on the church in Hitler's boyhood home in Austria. Hitler saw the persecution and deaths of many of the christian faith. Ironically, according to records at Dachau, the highest number of those of the non-secular class incarcerated were Catholic Priests. (I am not a Catholic, BTW) The official reason Hitler persecuted the Jews was that they were responsible for the killing of Christ.
I am not sure exactly what point you are trying to prove but as one who has had many spiritual and fleshly relatives executed by this fiend, I can assure you I am no fan of Hitler, his organization or his stooges. Also I detest the well documented deceit that he perpetuated on the German public. Even to this day, the German people are disgusted with his behavior, to the extent there is no saluting of flags and other sorts of patriotism. They saw how easily Hitler manipulated the masses.
OK Grungo: Prove that he didn't say it! I'm sure he didn't say those exact words since he spoke German. But the implied meaning of those translated words is exact and conveyed his feelings. Also, actions speak louder than words and his actions definitely say that he said it.
Grungo, "DUH! Yuk, yuk. I didn't heer him say it, so that theere fella Sagebrush is lyun. Yuk! Yuk! Then even Obama said if ya like that Goebbels quote, its gotta be a lie! And Obama don't lie, yah know! Yuk, yuk, yuk. Gee whiz, how stupid can yah get?!"
Jeff M: If I have been legitimately called out, I am unaware of it. Yes I have been called a liar many times. But no proof has been given. If you are referring to the Times magazine quote, you have offered no proof that Times never said it. So if I did got to the
Life magazine of January 30, 1970, stated: “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support . . . predictions” such as: “In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution,” and “increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will affect earth’s temperature, leading to mass flooding or a new ice age.”
and prove that they said it, it costs money you know, and showed it to everybody and had President Obama sign a paper stating that time magazine did say it. What would that get me for my troubles.
Here is where I proved you a liar when you claimed that no one else but me said there was an Ice Age back in the 70s. You just giggled like a foolish little creep and hid your head. You are not an honest individual. Ha! Ha! So now you come around and act like a big macho man, thinking that I forgot about your petty childish antics. Ha! Ha! You are so visible.
