SomeG illustrates Elizabeth's points almost perfectly, she says "No, we don 't have to take care of God's creations", as if being profligate was a virtue that the Bible extolled!
Yes, Elizabeth is hostile. And justifiably so.
The sun is not getting hotter.
We've measured it, and continue to do that.
The reason the world is heating is the added heat trapping caused by the 40% increase in CO2 in the atmosphere.
The idea that God has his finger on the climate button just is not right.
It's abandoning our responsibility to our grandchildren.
By burning all that coal, we've created a significant problem for generations yet to come.
Creationists elect people that think that America provides too much help for the poor.
Creationists elect people that think that taxes for the rich are too high.
Either they don't realize that reducing taxes for the rich mean that the poor need to pay more,
OR, they just don't care.
Creationists elect people that want to reduce money spent on education.
Creationists elect people that deny science.
The bible, including the new testament, isn't bad.
But, just as some Muslims have taken parts out of the Koran to justify evil intent,
some "Christians" have taken some parts of the Bible to support some very UnChristian ideas and activities.
Our society today is becoming more of "we" and "they".
When the USSR existed, "we" encompassed nearly all the country.
With it's demise, the human attitude that we need to have someone to denigrate has caused considerable internal trouble.
The good or bad news is that, it's possible that China will take the position that the USSR used to occupy.
One might note that the USSR took over Tibet some decades ago, and America did nothing.
Chinese leaders aren't stupid.
Actions like that will continue.
Americans keep buying stuff made in China, and sending their money to China.
China, now the US, is now the world leading creditor.
America is now the world's leading debtor nation.
It will not be long before the Chinese make demands on America, and, economically, America will have no option but to submit.
That will, to some extent, bring Americans together again.
Unfortunately, the damage will have been done, and the international political stage will have changed, and not be, from our viewpoint, repairable.
Have a good Sunday all. Head off to church. Read the Golden Rule again. Read about the Good Samaritan again Consider doing what the Bible really means, rather than using it to control other people.
Similar thought patterns are likely at least part of it. (assuming by "creationist" you mean "someone who thinks God created the world exactly as described in the Bible" rather than "someone who believes as a matter of faith that God created the world, however it was actually done"--plenty of scientific types believe the latter, including myself)
Denialists and creationists both have to reject the vast majority of relevant science in order to retain their views. Both listen to a few scientists, mostly crackpots, who mostly agree with them, and both tend to ignore the ways in which those scientists don't actually agree with them as much as they think. Both will seize on any scientific finding that could *possibly* be construed as matching their views, and both will twist said finding (sometimes almost beyond recognition) until it matches their views more or less exactly.
Neither tends to have a good grasp of either how science works in general, or what scientists in the branch of science they are rejecting are actually saying (look in R&S for all the questions that obviously assume monkey-to-human evolution happened in a single generation, for example, or look here for the people who obviously think scientists claim the sun has no effect on climate)
Both tend to accept certain key authorities (eg their pastors, Faux News) as the be-all and end-all authority on everything important, whether or not those authorities actually have any real knowledge about the subject at hand. Both have a tendency to believe in large-scale scientific conspiracies (which goes back, in part, to them not understanding how science works).
With all those overlapping habits of thought, it's no surprise at all that the two groups are significantly overlapping sets.
I don't know any creationists so I can't really say from first hand experience.
However, I suppose it's for the same reason so many other groups have jumped on the AGW bandwagon. It fits with a person's ideology.
Many oil companies are headquartered in the Bible belt and many churches love receiving 10% of oil company profits in their offering buckets, even though oil companies use old Earth science to find oil.
Madd Maxx
Truth seekers accept the truth, which is, global warming is happening
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010...
And we are causing it
http://c1planetsavecom.wpengine.netdna-c...
The ten warmest years in the instrumental record are 2010, 2005, 2009, 2007, 2002, 1998, 2006, 2003, 2011 and 2012.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
David
AGW is the truth. Why do people who claim to believe in God not believe that the truth has a way of coming out. If the truth didn't have a way of coming out, politicians would have buried global warming when they first voted against the carbon taxes that AGW is supposedly about.
Pretty funny and hypocritical to say that Creationism (or YECs as Darwinist suggests) suggests a supreme being, while the Theory of Relativity (which most all science adheres to) proven by Einstein suggests that there is infinite intelligence (the answer to Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" equation is "infinity").
In knowing how deceitful humans are in every day life, it's a wonder how science has survived this long with any amount of credibility. "Climate science engineers" (aka AGW Science) proof read their own science and call it the "law of climate science". Approval of each other's papers only adds to the "smoke and mirrors" of their "advocacy science". These environmentalists always display their trust in the human psyche and always fall on their faces when being exposed, only to gather together again to devise a new strategy in their deceptive practices.
As we tend to use "Global Warming" when we mean "Anthropogenic Global Warming", so we use "Creationist" as a shorthand for "Young Earth Creationist" This is very unfair to people such as Climate Realist; what we should be asking is "Why are YEC's jumping on the denial band wagon?
I've spoken to many YEC's over the decades and, if they have a common characteristic, it is their ability to be selective about which facts they accept and reject. You can prove anything (to your satisfaction) if you are able to cherry pick your evidence.
Only people with this ability are able to think Young Earth Creationism is a reasonable scientific position, and yes, they are strongly represented on the "skeptics" side of the AGW question.
As far as I'm aware, there are no YEC AGW proponents.
Why would YEC's jump on the denial bandwagon? I don't know; their position seems to be more political than scientific, with overtones of paranoia too.
Its because they are so committed to recycling ....... they just recycle the same old BS arguments
- its a global conspiracy
- socialist plot for NWO
- scientists paid to fabricate evidence
- sinister attempt to destroy western society
- its a religion headed by Darwin/Gore blah blah blah
Wow, so hostile, Elizabeth....
The reason creationists have "jumped on this bandwagon" is because, we feel like climate change is inevitable. It happened, its happening now, it will happen again. We believe in climate change. We simply don 't believe it's caused by us, We.. or.. *I* believe it happens despite of us.
Elizabeth, you are angry at.. someone. No, we don 't have to take care of God's creations. It's my opinion that this earth will kill US long before we kill it. Humans haven't even been alive long enough to effect the climate. We can't even kill the earth.
Look up The Gaia hypothesis, also known as Gaia theory or Gaia principle, proposes that organisms interact with their inorganic surroundings on Earth to form a self-regulating, complex system that contributes to maintaining the conditions for life on the planet.
I don't know but it seems strange to me.
If, as Creationists believe, the world was created by God, then does that not imply we have have a duty of care towards this Divine creation? Shouldn't Creationists be supporting the Greenies? Shouldn't Creationists be up on the pulpits demanding that we look after the planet?
But no. What we *actually* get is the hypocritical reality of their morally and ethically questionable faith ... the divine creation can go to hell provided my taxes don't go up.
Additional:
Sagebrush, nice try. But no cigar. Why don't you simply argue 'I don't accept global warming but I am happy to support an emissions reduction anyway because I want to be a good steward of the earth'?
SomeG, I'm not being hostile. Just pointing out that God is going to be mightily annoyed if you're wrong, the global scientific community was right all along, and you stood idly by fiddling like Nero while Rome burned.
Zippi: So your religious faith means that you intrinsically see the worst in people, and instantly assume they're lying and deceitful? That doesn't sounds particularly appealing as a faith. Jesus would be rolling over in his grave hearing that ... incidentally, the problem with your argument is that you question the credibility of science while using a technological device to post your answer that operates because of the credibility of the scientific method and its ability to explain.
Because they all know that God is more powerful than raising taxes.
Lizzy, yes, we should all be good stewards of the earth. What does believing in a lie have to do with that? Satan is clearly defined as the 'Father of the Lie' and so by lying about AGW, whose work are you doing?
Lizzy, your argument is full of holes. Your previous statement, "Shouldn't Creationists be supporting Greenies?" implies that only Greenies have the answers and if you don't support the Greenies then you are a menace to the Earth. Now you backtrack and want compromise. This is the first step to getting your foot in the door. Once your foot is in the door you historically wedge your way into tyranny. You Greenies are a sick bunch of people who have been the cause of misery and death but keep on denying that fact and amble on with your lies and deceit. Lies and deceit have no place with honest men. Here is your High Priest and what he says on this subject.
Quote by Al Gore, former U.S. vice president, and large CO2 producer: "I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
Over-representation is another word for a lie. That is what I am outright saying. You want us to swallow your lies or you will paint us as haters of the earth when, in fact, that is what you are. Haters of mankind and the Earth and your words and deed prove it.
Send me that cigar!
People who love Buybull babble are naturally attracted to information that has a similar smell.
Myself and probably the rest of the sane population weren't aware that they had.
Reality is not a concept easily understood by denier chanters.
God believers are normally truth seekers. And the truth is, THERE IS NO MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING. And it's NOT JUST creationists saying so.
Top climate scientists say there is no man-made Global Warming.
The Great Global Warming Swindle
Because they have already chosen a religion?
"Thou shalt not bear false witness" (9th Commandment). We don't like LIES, that's why.
Well the Bible asserts that the world will always have a self- regulating climate in the conditions after the Flood. At the end of the Flood period, Genesis 8:22 states...
“As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat, summer and winter,day and night
will never cease.”
That is the word of God on the matter. Contrary to the claims of Al Gore and others, we will never have conditions which will lead to ever-rising global temperatures, global droughts and excessive heat, etc.. That is not to say we will not have rising sea levels or other conditions which may be detrimental to some areas. In the centuries after the Flood, there is evidence that sea levels did rise some 3-400 feet or more which inundated coastal areas and drowned some cities or areas. Researchers like Graham Hancock and others have found numerous sites of lost cities and structures well below modern sea levels. Mankind has always adapted to such changes. But we live in a different world where more people live along coastal areas. So that is a concern but ultimately, what can be done about it? And how long will it take before God destroys our corrupt world and restores it? If this is the last century for us on Earth as some prophecies seem to indicate, then we will be spending vast sums of money to cure a so-called problem which won't matter. There are many other pressing problems which could be dealt with...wars, famines, hunger, poverty, disease, genetic problems, etc..
If the Earth is slowly returning to climate conditions before the Flood when the world had a more temperate climate, then we will indeed see melting of glaciers, ice caps and rising sea levels. But it is not due to man's excessive production of CO2. Climate science and other sciences fail to understand the history of climate conditions on Earth by denying a global Flood and it's after effects. If needed, there are numerous ways we could address the CO2 issue right now without inducing higher taxation or burdening people. A professor was just fired from a think tank after serving for 23 years for expressing his opinions that people in Africa are being restricted to access to cheap energy due to AGW concerns and questioning the claims. So is that right? What about the suffering of those people? As a Christian, I would say it's not good that we deprive some people the ability to raise their standard of living based on false claims of AGW.
Article....
" Professor's fellowship 'terminated' after WSJ OpEd declaring ‘the left wants to stop industrialization―even if the hypothesis of catastrophic, man-made global warming is false’
Climate Statistics Prof. Caleb Rossiter: 'If people ever say that fears of censorship for ‘climate change’ views are overblown, have them take a look at this. Just two days after I published a piece in the Wall Street Journal calling for Africa to be allowed the ‘all of the above’ energy strategy we have in the U.S., the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS) terminated my 23-year relationship with them...because my analysis and theirs ‘diverge.’
...................
"Dr. Caleb Rossiter was “terminated” via email as an “Associate Fellow” from the progressive group Institute for Policy Studies (IPS), following his May 4th, 2014 Wall Street Journal OpEd titled “Sacrificing Africa for Climate Change,” in which he called man-made global warming an “unproved science.” Rossiter also championed the expansion of carbon based energy in Africa. Dr. Rossiter is an adjunct professor at American University. Rossiter, who has taught courses in climate statistics, holds a PhD in policy analysis and a masters degree in mathematics.
In an exclusive interview with Climate Depot, Dr. Rossiter explained: “If people ever say that fears of censorship for ‘climate change’ views are overblown, have them take a look at this: Just two days after I published a piece in the Wall Street Journal calling for Africa to be allowed the ‘all of the above’ energy strategy we have in the U.S., the Institute for Policy Studies terminated my 23-year relationship with them…because my analysis and theirs ‘diverge.’”
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/06/12/f...
The truth is that some liberals and progressives don't want to hear any opposition to their claims of AGW so that they can manipulate people and economies in a world of their desires by fearmongering.
The only "global warming" we have to contend with will be in the last days of Earth in this century when God will destroy the Earth and universe and create or restore a new world where the righteous will live with God forever.
But until then, we do have a duty to take care of this world and it's people as best we can. That does include using the resources which God has provided for us to their best potential. There are many ways we can reduce CO2 or other emissions if or no other reason than to reduce pollution and also greatly increase fuel economy of vehicles or use alternative biofuels without resorting to increased taxes or costs or depriving poorer, Third World countries of the world access to the same forms of energy we have used to improve our quality of life.
2 Peter 3
"3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...
Dr Walt Brown's online book of his Hydroplate Theory - Flood model and a segment on global warming...
Excerpt.....
"Is Global Warming Occurring? If So, What Causes It?
Global warming―an emotionally charged social, political, economic, and ecological issue―is occurring. However, most who jump to the conclusion that man is the primary cause of global warming also believe that the earth is billions of years old. They are alarmed that man is ruining a billion-year-old earth in just a few decades. No, global warming began at the peak of the Ice Age, a few centuries after the flood. As more ice melts, the long-term warming trend will continue with many short-term fluctuations.
Global warming will alter world economies, and poorer countries may be less able to advance. Thousands of researchers with conflicting solutions to the problem are competing for funds. However, before billions of dollars are spent, global warming’s cause should be clearly understood.
All can agree that the Sun’s output varies and yearly records show wide temperature fluctuations. Nevertheless, the slow, warming trend―seen over centuries, not years―will continue, but for a surprising reason. We should first understand why the earth has so much ice―7 million cubic miles. Of the world’s ice, 88% is in Antarctica and 10% in Greenland. If all that ice melts, sea level will rise at least 200 feet.1
The global flood produced the special conditions that caused the Ice Age: temporarily cold continents and warm oceans. "
http://www.creationscience.com/onlineboo...
